Hmong agus teangacha eile
Agallamh SBS le Marion Gunn et al., 1997-09
Agallamh raidió (Radio interview)
Transcript of September 1997 SBS (Australia) broadcast, by kind permission of Gina Wilkinson
f11-A sfx 0:15
(Sound of modem connecting, then typing)
Throughout the world, people are being urged to get hooked up to the internet and join the telecommunications revolution.
But the vast majority of information available on the internet is in English.
Linguists and computer experts warn this could have profound implications for non-English speakers.
They say the net holds both opportunities and dangers for rare and endangered languages. [continue]
Showing posts with label Hmong. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Hmong. Show all posts
Wednesday, November 26, 2008
Ancient Hmong Writing System
Hmoob qauv ntaub qauv ntawv, Hmoob nyiam hnav thiab kawm thoob ntuj. Hmoob noob lus, noob ris, noob tsho, noob ntaub, noob ntawv, ntawm poj koob yawm txwv Hmoob.
I am not the speaker, the narrator is an elder I work with to help preserve the Hmong culture and history. The elder also helps explain the history of the ancient Hmong written language in parts 4 and onward.
I would like to take this time to add that this writing is not the one created by Shong Lue Yang, many mistook its identity for the Pahawh Language which can be viewed here at this linguistics website: http://www.omniglot.com/writing/hmong...
It is the wish of all elder Hmong that we teach anyone and everyone who wishes to learn about the Hmong, their culture, and history.
This video is meant to help Hmong speaking individuals understand the ancient Hmong writing system and its history. The consonants, vowels, tone indicators, and numerals will be discussed over the course of these 7 video clips. I will help make an informative documentary for our English speaking viewers at a later date.
The first two consonants on Part 1 of 7 are the Hmong RPA equivalents of "Hm" and "M". Information from this link will help show more Hmong Romanized Popular Alphabet (RPA) equivalents:
http://hmoobvwj.com/qauv/ntawv/hmoob/...
It has been said many times that the Hmong have never had a written language until recently; however, this is not true. This writing system is believed to be ancient because oral history records it has been in use ever since if not before the Peb Hmoob Kingdom (San Miao 2200 BC). It is true the Hmong have a rich history of oral culture but there's a good reason why.
After the fall of the Hmong kingdom, the Hmong had no choice but to flee their homeland to avoid being sinicized or persecuted. Naturally, higher ground gives one a military advantage, so their ancestors from long ago migrated into the mountains of China to keep their freedom although they would lose their chance at rebuilding their former strength, their former kingdom.
They built small villages to avoid being detected by Chinese soldiers. During which dynasty this occurred, we do not yet know for sure but evidence suggests it occurred some time during the Qin Dynasty (221BC - 206BC). It was then that Qin soldiers (pronounced 'Chin') were given orders to burn the documents of all the kingdoms they conquered.
The use of a "foreign" written language was banned, this is the reason why the Hmong culture became well established in its oral traditions because that was the only form of communication they were allowed.
Therefore to preserve the Hmong written language, Hmong women sowed the characters onto their own clothing as a form of art later known as the Flower Cloth (paj ntaub). This form of art helped keep it alive, that was how the written language of the Hmong was preserved for centuries. Oral traditions became more dominant and the written language became obscured for security reasons.
The Hmong who never surrendered continued to rebel against various dynasties of China for centuries, eventually migrating into the mountains of Southeast Asia after the major loss of life during the Miao Rebellion where hundreds of thousands of Hmong fought against the Qing Dynasty (Manchu Dynasty) in the 19th century.
During the Vietnam War, the Hmong who kept the old code of honor sided with American forces against the rise of communism. After the US withdrew from Southeast Asia, Hmong soldiers did their best to hold their ground. Realizing it would be suicide to stay in Laos; survivors started fleeing in 1975 to Thailand for asylum. Thousands of elders, women, and children lost their lives to either communist troops or trying to cross the Mekong River. Eventually many free nations from around the world accepted the refugees with the largest concentration in the United States.
Hmong historians, traditionally old men or women who kept the oral tradition alive, often encouraged the Hmong youth to "kawm ntaub kawm ntawv" which literally translated into English as "learn the cloth learn the writing." This meaning was never fully understood as many Hmong including myself thought these words simply meant "get an education." But the true meaning was that if you learn how to sow the cloth you'll eventually learn how to use the Hmong writing system.
It takes a great level of patience alone to sow each character from the flower cloth, when a student has proven that they have the patience to learn, they are eventually taught what sound each character makes and there onto how to read and write the ancient Hmong writing system.
If you have any questions please feel free to leave a comment or message me. Thank you for stopping by. =)
TheHmongIdentity
June 18, 2008
I am not the speaker, the narrator is an elder I work with to help preserve the Hmong culture and history. The elder also helps explain the history of the ancient Hmong written language in parts 4 and onward.
I would like to take this time to add that this writing is not the one created by Shong Lue Yang, many mistook its identity for the Pahawh Language which can be viewed here at this linguistics website: http://www.omniglot.com/writing/hmong...
It is the wish of all elder Hmong that we teach anyone and everyone who wishes to learn about the Hmong, their culture, and history.
This video is meant to help Hmong speaking individuals understand the ancient Hmong writing system and its history. The consonants, vowels, tone indicators, and numerals will be discussed over the course of these 7 video clips. I will help make an informative documentary for our English speaking viewers at a later date.
The first two consonants on Part 1 of 7 are the Hmong RPA equivalents of "Hm" and "M". Information from this link will help show more Hmong Romanized Popular Alphabet (RPA) equivalents:
http://hmoobvwj.com/qauv/ntawv/hmoob/...
It has been said many times that the Hmong have never had a written language until recently; however, this is not true. This writing system is believed to be ancient because oral history records it has been in use ever since if not before the Peb Hmoob Kingdom (San Miao 2200 BC). It is true the Hmong have a rich history of oral culture but there's a good reason why.
After the fall of the Hmong kingdom, the Hmong had no choice but to flee their homeland to avoid being sinicized or persecuted. Naturally, higher ground gives one a military advantage, so their ancestors from long ago migrated into the mountains of China to keep their freedom although they would lose their chance at rebuilding their former strength, their former kingdom.
They built small villages to avoid being detected by Chinese soldiers. During which dynasty this occurred, we do not yet know for sure but evidence suggests it occurred some time during the Qin Dynasty (221BC - 206BC). It was then that Qin soldiers (pronounced 'Chin') were given orders to burn the documents of all the kingdoms they conquered.
The use of a "foreign" written language was banned, this is the reason why the Hmong culture became well established in its oral traditions because that was the only form of communication they were allowed.
Therefore to preserve the Hmong written language, Hmong women sowed the characters onto their own clothing as a form of art later known as the Flower Cloth (paj ntaub). This form of art helped keep it alive, that was how the written language of the Hmong was preserved for centuries. Oral traditions became more dominant and the written language became obscured for security reasons.
The Hmong who never surrendered continued to rebel against various dynasties of China for centuries, eventually migrating into the mountains of Southeast Asia after the major loss of life during the Miao Rebellion where hundreds of thousands of Hmong fought against the Qing Dynasty (Manchu Dynasty) in the 19th century.
During the Vietnam War, the Hmong who kept the old code of honor sided with American forces against the rise of communism. After the US withdrew from Southeast Asia, Hmong soldiers did their best to hold their ground. Realizing it would be suicide to stay in Laos; survivors started fleeing in 1975 to Thailand for asylum. Thousands of elders, women, and children lost their lives to either communist troops or trying to cross the Mekong River. Eventually many free nations from around the world accepted the refugees with the largest concentration in the United States.
Hmong historians, traditionally old men or women who kept the oral tradition alive, often encouraged the Hmong youth to "kawm ntaub kawm ntawv" which literally translated into English as "learn the cloth learn the writing." This meaning was never fully understood as many Hmong including myself thought these words simply meant "get an education." But the true meaning was that if you learn how to sow the cloth you'll eventually learn how to use the Hmong writing system.
It takes a great level of patience alone to sow each character from the flower cloth, when a student has proven that they have the patience to learn, they are eventually taught what sound each character makes and there onto how to read and write the ancient Hmong writing system.
If you have any questions please feel free to leave a comment or message me. Thank you for stopping by. =)
TheHmongIdentity
June 18, 2008
Friday, November 26, 1971
Hmong agus teangacha eile
Hmong agus teangacha eile
Agallamh SBS le Marion Gunn et al., 1997-09
Agallamh raidió (Radio interview)
Transcript of September 1997 SBS (Australia) broadcast, by kind permission of Gina Wilkinson
f11-A sfx 0:15
(Sound of modem connecting, then typing)
Throughout the world, people are being urged to get hooked up to the internet and join the telecommunications revolution.
But the vast majority of information available on the internet is in English.
Linguists and computer experts warn this could have profound implications for non-English speakers.
They say the net holds both opportunities and dangers for rare and endangered languages.
RICHARD CHIRGWIN, Managing Director of AUSTRALIAN COMMUNICATIONS magazine, says the dominance of English on the net is a legacy of its birth in the UNITED STATES.
F11-b CHIRGWIN 0:25
The original project was a joint military and academic project first conceived in the 1960s. For most of its life the internet has been centred in America, and up until very recently a very high proportion of the users were Americans in academia, and that suggests English as the dominant language.
Mr CHIRGWIN says the lack of a significant non-English language presence on the internet alienates a huge section of the world's population.
F11-c CHIRGWIN 0:17
The more that computing in general excludes non-English speakers, the more it will either downgrade the local language or exclude non-English speakers from the globalization of the internet.
CAOIMHIN Ó DONNAÍLE and MARION GUNN are co-founders of a free internet service which allows speakers of all forms of Gaelic to communicate easily across the world.
Mr Ó DONNAÍLE fears the internet could threaten the survival of some languages.
11F-d Ó DONNAÍLE 0:13
English is spreading around the world like wildfire, driven by computer technology, and it's not just languages like Gaelic which are in danger lots of small languages will be feeling very threatened soon.
Despite the dominance of English on the net, there are numerous sites in several major EUROPEAN languages, such as SPANISH, ITALIAN, FRENCH and GERMAN.
CHRISTINA EIRA, a Web Development Officer at Melbourne University's Linguistics Department, says languages with a Roman script (English lettering: a, b, c, d, etc.) can be easily incorporated onto the net.
But she says speakers of other languages have been forced to use a clumsy form of transliteration, using an English-based script.
11f-e EIRA 0:26
If you use a Roman script with additions, then it's sort of like using a badly written form of your language, so you have to make some guesses about what the words actually are. Another major language is Greek -- that doesn't have equal access to writing in authentic Greek, so they'll use Roman letters to indicate the pronunciation of Greek, but it might not be totally correct. It's rather chaotic.
Ms EIRA is developing software and a web site to be used by HMONG refugees who have left their homes in CHINA and SOUTHEAST ASIA.
She says the internet is a fantastic way for small or isolated groups to maintain their language and culture.
11f-f EIRA 0:30
For the Hmong, Its extremely important because they've left their country, they've therefore become dispersed all over the world, so it's not only their language is in danger, their sense of indentity has been totally disintergrated. If you can maintain links through things like the internet, it's way faster than using the mail and also you can talk to your entire family group.
However, she says the HMONG, like many ASIAN and MIDDLE EASTERN groups, have great difficulty communicating on the net because of the need to use Roman characters.
11F-g EIRA 0:30
It's encouraging or forcing the choice of that script to be used internationally, and people who only read, or would prefer to read the other scripts don't have access to the net. That mean's if you're going to keep up with technology then you're forced to take on a particluar culture as well. There's no reason why we can't have technology in Hmong, without forcing Hmong to become Americans or Anglo-Australians.
Ms EIRA is currently working on a program allowing HMONG people to use their indigenous script on the net.
11f-h EIRA 0:35
They see this as retaining their own identity rather than being submerged into another culture. I've set up a home page, the front page is in English, and that walks you through the steps to get a font for that script and then you can switch to a page a read material in Hmong in their script. It's a long process.
While the dominace of English on the net may be alienating to some, CAOIMHIN Ó DONNAÍLE says the Gaelic service has proven extremely popular.
He says it has grown to include a strain of Gaelic from the Isle of Man, which had until recently been considered extinct.
11F-i Ó DONNAÍLE 0:15
People think it's died out. They say the last native speaker died forty years ago but in fact there's been an unbroken line of people who learnt from native speakers. There's more Manx Gaelic on the internet than Scottish Gaelic. It's amazing.
MARION GUNN has set up many internet networks for Celtic speakers, and founded the Gaelic list, with CAOIMHIN Ó DONNAÍLE
She says she welcomes the many English speakers drawn to the Celtic lists.
But she has had to develop seperate networks to cater for English speakers with an interest in Celtic languages and culture.
11F-j GUNN 0:11
We've been actually outnumbered by English speakers saying "What does this mean? What does that mean? Please include an English translation". We are basically trying to communicate in our own language. Sometimes they get uptight or annoyed.
MARION's company also supplies internet systems and software for the INUIT people in CANADA.
She says while many people are developing ways to use non-Roman scripts on the internet, this has in turn created new dilemmas.
11F-k GUNN 0:13
All of these problems are being solved, the trouble is there are almost as many solutions as there are problems, With the result that you have several different computer systems out there, all of them able to solve these problems, but unable to communicate with each other.
She urges all people working on internet scripts to ensure they are compatible with other systems.
11F-l GUNN 0:18
I work with an international organization called ISO -- the International Standards Organization, which tries to reconcile the representation of languages across international barriers, and across different computing platforms so people will actually be able to communicate regardless of the script in use.
In AUSTRALIA, Aboriginal people are also grappling with new internet technology.
MICHAEL CHRISTIE, from the Northern Territory University, is setting up web sites for the YUULNGU people of Arnhem Land.
Like MARION GUNN, Mr CHRISTIE also liaises with global organizations to ensure the internet caters for all people.
11F-m CHRISTIE 0:19
Part of our work is to get the internationally recognized bodies set up so that they do listen to indigenous voices all over the place, and structure the ways that information is stored in ways that reflect indigenous people's understandings.
He says YUULNGU people use a script introduced by Methodist missionaries almost seventy years ago.
But he says this contains accents, acutes, graves and circumflexes which are difficult to use on the internet.
He says it's vital that Aboriginal people are not excluded from the internet.
11F-n CHRISTIE 0:14
Yuulngu are widely seperated from each other through lots of little communities, certainly in the future, internet type communication may become as important as telephones are at the moment.
CAOIMHIN Ó DONNAÍLE also runs a European Minority Language web page, which contains information on more than 50 rare tongues.
11F-o Ó DONNAÍLE 0:35
I'm in front of the comouter so I'll just click on the page...It's most of the European minority languages, some of which I don't even know very well myself... Albershay, Asturiano, Bairisch, which is Bavarian-German, Brezhonek which is Breton, Catalan, Corsican, Welsh, Delnor Serbski, which I think is one of the small Slavic enclaves in the former East Germany, Basque, Cerouise -- that's just the start.
Through this web page, users can find links to specialized information on each language.
Australian Communication's RICHARD CHIRGWIN says market forces may also help preserve some languages, but those based in poorer countries may be ignored.
11F-p CHIRGWIN 0:27
The most populous country in the world is China, therefore to exclude Chinese who do not speak English from the internet is also to exclude what is potentially the largest single market, or to exclude Japanese speakers from the internet is to exclude possibly the wealthiest market.
CAOINHIN Ó DONNAÍLE is optimistic that the internet will help keep endangered languages alive.
11F-q Ó DONNAÍLE 0:37
The internet is a great resource and it's going to get better and better, there will not only be text, there'll be sound material and I think some languages which had been fated to die out because the numbers are so small will manage to keep going, because there'll be material available on the net. It's part of the cultural inheritance of mankind.
(Sound of modem connecting, then typing (0:15)
SBS Radio, Australia, September 1997
Téir go dtí innéacs EGT
HTML Marion Gunn, mgunn@egt.ie, Baile Átha Cliath, 1997-10-19
[source]
Agallamh SBS le Marion Gunn et al., 1997-09
Agallamh raidió (Radio interview)
Transcript of September 1997 SBS (Australia) broadcast, by kind permission of Gina Wilkinson
f11-A sfx 0:15
(Sound of modem connecting, then typing)
Throughout the world, people are being urged to get hooked up to the internet and join the telecommunications revolution.
But the vast majority of information available on the internet is in English.
Linguists and computer experts warn this could have profound implications for non-English speakers.
They say the net holds both opportunities and dangers for rare and endangered languages.
RICHARD CHIRGWIN, Managing Director of AUSTRALIAN COMMUNICATIONS magazine, says the dominance of English on the net is a legacy of its birth in the UNITED STATES.
F11-b CHIRGWIN 0:25
The original project was a joint military and academic project first conceived in the 1960s. For most of its life the internet has been centred in America, and up until very recently a very high proportion of the users were Americans in academia, and that suggests English as the dominant language.
Mr CHIRGWIN says the lack of a significant non-English language presence on the internet alienates a huge section of the world's population.
F11-c CHIRGWIN 0:17
The more that computing in general excludes non-English speakers, the more it will either downgrade the local language or exclude non-English speakers from the globalization of the internet.
CAOIMHIN Ó DONNAÍLE and MARION GUNN are co-founders of a free internet service which allows speakers of all forms of Gaelic to communicate easily across the world.
Mr Ó DONNAÍLE fears the internet could threaten the survival of some languages.
11F-d Ó DONNAÍLE 0:13
English is spreading around the world like wildfire, driven by computer technology, and it's not just languages like Gaelic which are in danger lots of small languages will be feeling very threatened soon.
Despite the dominance of English on the net, there are numerous sites in several major EUROPEAN languages, such as SPANISH, ITALIAN, FRENCH and GERMAN.
CHRISTINA EIRA, a Web Development Officer at Melbourne University's Linguistics Department, says languages with a Roman script (English lettering: a, b, c, d, etc.) can be easily incorporated onto the net.
But she says speakers of other languages have been forced to use a clumsy form of transliteration, using an English-based script.
11f-e EIRA 0:26
If you use a Roman script with additions, then it's sort of like using a badly written form of your language, so you have to make some guesses about what the words actually are. Another major language is Greek -- that doesn't have equal access to writing in authentic Greek, so they'll use Roman letters to indicate the pronunciation of Greek, but it might not be totally correct. It's rather chaotic.
Ms EIRA is developing software and a web site to be used by HMONG refugees who have left their homes in CHINA and SOUTHEAST ASIA.
She says the internet is a fantastic way for small or isolated groups to maintain their language and culture.
11f-f EIRA 0:30
For the Hmong, Its extremely important because they've left their country, they've therefore become dispersed all over the world, so it's not only their language is in danger, their sense of indentity has been totally disintergrated. If you can maintain links through things like the internet, it's way faster than using the mail and also you can talk to your entire family group.
However, she says the HMONG, like many ASIAN and MIDDLE EASTERN groups, have great difficulty communicating on the net because of the need to use Roman characters.
11F-g EIRA 0:30
It's encouraging or forcing the choice of that script to be used internationally, and people who only read, or would prefer to read the other scripts don't have access to the net. That mean's if you're going to keep up with technology then you're forced to take on a particluar culture as well. There's no reason why we can't have technology in Hmong, without forcing Hmong to become Americans or Anglo-Australians.
Ms EIRA is currently working on a program allowing HMONG people to use their indigenous script on the net.
11f-h EIRA 0:35
They see this as retaining their own identity rather than being submerged into another culture. I've set up a home page, the front page is in English, and that walks you through the steps to get a font for that script and then you can switch to a page a read material in Hmong in their script. It's a long process.
While the dominace of English on the net may be alienating to some, CAOIMHIN Ó DONNAÍLE says the Gaelic service has proven extremely popular.
He says it has grown to include a strain of Gaelic from the Isle of Man, which had until recently been considered extinct.
11F-i Ó DONNAÍLE 0:15
People think it's died out. They say the last native speaker died forty years ago but in fact there's been an unbroken line of people who learnt from native speakers. There's more Manx Gaelic on the internet than Scottish Gaelic. It's amazing.
MARION GUNN has set up many internet networks for Celtic speakers, and founded the Gaelic list, with CAOIMHIN Ó DONNAÍLE
She says she welcomes the many English speakers drawn to the Celtic lists.
But she has had to develop seperate networks to cater for English speakers with an interest in Celtic languages and culture.
11F-j GUNN 0:11
We've been actually outnumbered by English speakers saying "What does this mean? What does that mean? Please include an English translation". We are basically trying to communicate in our own language. Sometimes they get uptight or annoyed.
MARION's company also supplies internet systems and software for the INUIT people in CANADA.
She says while many people are developing ways to use non-Roman scripts on the internet, this has in turn created new dilemmas.
11F-k GUNN 0:13
All of these problems are being solved, the trouble is there are almost as many solutions as there are problems, With the result that you have several different computer systems out there, all of them able to solve these problems, but unable to communicate with each other.
She urges all people working on internet scripts to ensure they are compatible with other systems.
11F-l GUNN 0:18
I work with an international organization called ISO -- the International Standards Organization, which tries to reconcile the representation of languages across international barriers, and across different computing platforms so people will actually be able to communicate regardless of the script in use.
In AUSTRALIA, Aboriginal people are also grappling with new internet technology.
MICHAEL CHRISTIE, from the Northern Territory University, is setting up web sites for the YUULNGU people of Arnhem Land.
Like MARION GUNN, Mr CHRISTIE also liaises with global organizations to ensure the internet caters for all people.
11F-m CHRISTIE 0:19
Part of our work is to get the internationally recognized bodies set up so that they do listen to indigenous voices all over the place, and structure the ways that information is stored in ways that reflect indigenous people's understandings.
He says YUULNGU people use a script introduced by Methodist missionaries almost seventy years ago.
But he says this contains accents, acutes, graves and circumflexes which are difficult to use on the internet.
He says it's vital that Aboriginal people are not excluded from the internet.
11F-n CHRISTIE 0:14
Yuulngu are widely seperated from each other through lots of little communities, certainly in the future, internet type communication may become as important as telephones are at the moment.
CAOIMHIN Ó DONNAÍLE also runs a European Minority Language web page, which contains information on more than 50 rare tongues.
11F-o Ó DONNAÍLE 0:35
I'm in front of the comouter so I'll just click on the page...It's most of the European minority languages, some of which I don't even know very well myself... Albershay, Asturiano, Bairisch, which is Bavarian-German, Brezhonek which is Breton, Catalan, Corsican, Welsh, Delnor Serbski, which I think is one of the small Slavic enclaves in the former East Germany, Basque, Cerouise -- that's just the start.
Through this web page, users can find links to specialized information on each language.
Australian Communication's RICHARD CHIRGWIN says market forces may also help preserve some languages, but those based in poorer countries may be ignored.
11F-p CHIRGWIN 0:27
The most populous country in the world is China, therefore to exclude Chinese who do not speak English from the internet is also to exclude what is potentially the largest single market, or to exclude Japanese speakers from the internet is to exclude possibly the wealthiest market.
CAOINHIN Ó DONNAÍLE is optimistic that the internet will help keep endangered languages alive.
11F-q Ó DONNAÍLE 0:37
The internet is a great resource and it's going to get better and better, there will not only be text, there'll be sound material and I think some languages which had been fated to die out because the numbers are so small will manage to keep going, because there'll be material available on the net. It's part of the cultural inheritance of mankind.
(Sound of modem connecting, then typing (0:15)
SBS Radio, Australia, September 1997
Téir go dtí innéacs EGT
HTML Marion Gunn, mgunn@egt.ie, Baile Átha Cliath, 1997-10-19
[source]
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